E72 • Feel the Fear, Do it Anyway • FREDERIKE MIGOM, dir. of ‘Everyone’s Sorry Nowadays’ at Berlinale

Belgian filmmaker Frederike Migom breaks down her Berlinale premiere Everyone’s Sorry Nowadays, a coming-of-age story set almost entirely inside a single home and a young girl’s mind. The film explores identity through a tightly contained structure, blending realism with imagined sequences that bring the character’s inner world to life.

She talks through her unconventional path into directing, from acting and production work to navigating Europe’s state-funded film system. A key turning point came not from making films, but from receiving funding, the moment she says she finally felt “allowed” to call herself a director. The conversation digs into adapting a novel, working within creative limitations, and why fear is an unavoidable part of the process. 

Migom cites films like Boy, Arizona Dream, the work of Céline Sciamma and Andrea Arnold, and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind as touchstones for balancing realism with subjectivity. She also shares a simple philosophy that carried her through: feel the fear, do it anyway - and trust that the process will lead you where you need to go.

Introducing the Past Present Feature Film Festival, a new showcase celebrating cinematic storytelling across time. From bold proof of concept shorts to stand out new films lighting up the circuit, to overlooked features that deserve another look. 

Sponsored by the Past Present Feature podcast and Leica Camera. Submit now at filmfreeway.com/PastPresentFeature

Revival Hub is your guide to specialty screenings in Los Angeles - classics on 35mm, director Q&As, rare restorations, and indie gems you won't find on streaming. We connect moviegoers with over 200 venues across LA, from the major revival houses to the 20-seat microcinemas and more.

Visit revivalhub.com to see what's playing this week. 

Transcript

Marcus Mizelle (00:21)
Belgian filmmaker Frederico Meeuwum breaks down her Berlin Alley premiere, Everyone's Sorry Nowadays, a coming of age story set almost entirely inside a single home and a young girl's mind. The film explores identity through a tightly contained structure, blending realism with imagined sequences that bring the characters in a world to life. her unconventional path into directing.

from acting and production work navigating Europe's state-funded film system. A key turning point came not from making films, from receiving funding, the moment she says she finally felt allowed to call herself a director. The conversation digs into adapting a novel, working within creative limitations, and why fear is an unavoidable part of the process. Mighalm cites films like Boy, Arizona Dream, the work of Celine Sciamma, and Andrea Arnold.

for balancing realism with subjectivity. a simple philosophy that carried her through. Feel the fear, do it anyway,

and trust that the process will lead you where you need to go.

Marcus Mizelle (01:23)
tell me about your doc,

Frederike (01:24)
It's set in a youth psychiatric hospital. yeah, it's about kids in the hospital. They're there for up to a year. And I'm basically talking about mental health, but strictly through their eyes or minds. So, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (01:44)
So it's a comedy. ⁓ Not funny. Not funny at all.

Frederike (01:48)
It's a documentary about suicidal teenagers, basically.

Marcus Mizelle (01:53)
goodness gracious. Where does that take place?

Frederike (01:54)
Yeah,

in the hospital.

Marcus Mizelle (01:57)
I'm sorry, what city?

Frederike (02:00)
Brussels.

Marcus Mizelle (02:00)
okay, nice. And you're from Antwerp, I see.

Frederike (02:03)
Correct. But I haven't been an Antwerp in a long time. Why?

Marcus Mizelle (02:04)
my gosh. I always,

I'm looking at your Wikipedia bio. How do you pronounce your name? Because I do not want to get it wrong.

Frederike (02:12)
Frederik and Mícham.

Marcus Mizelle (02:13)
It's a cool name I've been to Brussels For one day once and I've always wanted to make a crime film there ever since going something about it Just very crime film ready. I think it's the the I don't know like the it was wet. It was moody It was like gothic II. I don't know like it was very ⁓ maybe not got a little guy Maybe not the right word But it was just a vibe. It was it's dark. It's got some shit going on

Frederike (02:23)
Why?

yeah, yeah. It's dark. It's a dark city.

Marcus Mizelle (02:41)
I feel like it's what is it the center of ⁓ the EU as far as the capital of the EU, technically. A lot of finance there. Am I right? No, what am I thinking?

Frederike (02:47)
Correct, yeah.

No, I mean, is the capital

of the EU and the Commission is there, but there's also really a sort of underground art scene that is less talked about internationally, but that's very vivid and it's nice because it is still rather underground and non-pretentious and it's really, really interesting. But it's also a dark, chaotic, messy city. It really is.

Marcus Mizelle (03:00)
Mmm.

Okay, so my vibe, the instinct was correct. Why is it messy, you think?

Frederike (03:21)
It's mess... Well, to give you one example, we haven't had a government for a year and a half, just because they can't get their shit together.

Marcus Mizelle (03:31)
It's like here.

Frederike (03:32)
Well, I'm not going to... I would say no to that, yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (03:34)
We can go all politics. We don't touch it. We don't go. We already know. Let's go ahead and move

right along, because we can keep our sanity that way. ⁓ Nice. OK, so you're in Brussels now. You live in Brussels.

Frederike (03:42)
Yeah. Yes.

Marcus Mizelle (03:47)
And ⁓ Antwerp, always think about Snatch when I think about Antwerp, you the diamond thing. Remember Snatch, Guy Ritchie's movie? Yeah, that's what I think about as an American. ⁓ And so, okay, you are... Wait, okay. ⁓ you didn't? Let's go through it just real quick. You started your career as an actress where you made your film debut, Miss Homeless, in 2009.

Frederike (03:55)
I do, I do, I do.

I didn't write that Wikipedia, by the way. Obviously. I don't know what is in it.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (04:15)
Is this correct so far? No!

Frederike (04:15)
No.

Yeah, I mean, yes, but that wasn't, I don't know what it says. It's not a, Miss Homeless was like, I literally was in the film for three seconds and it was a friend of mine who made a film. I have no idea.

Marcus Mizelle (04:28)
Oh, interesting. Who wrote this? Interesting. In 2010, you worked as, I'm

gonna tell you about you then, things that you don't know maybe, or things that are not correct. In 2010, you worked as the second AD for the film First Mission.

Frederike (04:41)
Yeah, that's true.

Marcus Mizelle (04:41)
Is that right?

Okay, check. And then in smurver, I can, smurver lift. Anyways, ah, okay.

Frederike (04:47)
I worked on

that. That was an internship.

Marcus Mizelle (04:51)
So you did some work, some ADing, and then you, let's see here, you're a production, post-production coordinator. You've done some things. We're going back. We're in the past. Yeah.

Frederike (05:00)
⁓ boy, yeah, I've done some things. Like everyone, you know, you start out

doing whatever you can.

Marcus Mizelle (05:07)
It's true, it's true, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, you know, that's a good place to just roll right into like your origin story then. Before we do that, I do just wanna state your movie title and what's going on with it. ⁓ Your film is...

⁓ Well, I'm getting to, I'm blanking, but everyone's sorry nowadays. You're premiering at the Berlin Alley and it is about, On a sweltering summer day, Bianca feels unseen by her parents, then an unexpected encounter with her favorite female actor, Billy King, helps her to find herself.

a tender imaginative tale about dreams and carving out a space for yourself in life. It's a world premiere. ⁓ Berlin is so dope. mean, it's a really great place to premiere a film, right? How excited are you about that?

Frederike (05:52)
Very. And mostly what I'm excited about is the fact that we just finished the film Friday and last Friday, yeah. And to be able to just go into the world with it right away, that's... especially nowadays, that's the best. I cannot be... yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (05:58)
wow.

⁓ bless you. Yes. ⁓

there's all this like, I'll speak for myself, but there's just all this kind of concern or like question about, your movie getting seen these days, right? And separate of just a distribution conversation. Just these festivals, I feel like are more important than ever. And especially the top ones, right? And Berlin's top five in the world. No competition, but you know, it really is like it's top, it's top top. And...

Frederike (06:26)
Totally.

Marcus Mizelle (06:33)
how wonderful that you get to premiere your movie there and like, my God, you finished Friday. You finished the color and the sound mix and all that, like the technical tightening.

Frederike (06:35)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The whole shebang,

like the very last day was Friday, yeah. Final mix.

Marcus Mizelle (06:46)
Wow.

When did you have the, I guess, picture locked? How long ago was that?

Frederike (06:50)
Editing, picture log was November? Beginning of November?

Marcus Mizelle (06:56)
Okay, still

not too far, not too long ago. Yeah, wow.

Frederike (07:01)
No, it was

one big train. We finished shooting August 31st, so we went straight on.

Marcus Mizelle (07:07)
What?

You just finished shooting August 31st, 2025? That's wild. Wow. But you are, were you editing along the way?

Frederike (07:11)
Yes, sir.

No, I mean, I wasn't, obviously. The editor started, I think, three weeks before the end of shooting, yeah. So I had four days break and then got to see the first edit.

Marcus Mizelle (07:19)
yeah.

Damn, that's remarkable.

I love this so much. This is like a, ⁓ it's not always like this though, right? I mean, it's nice to hear when it is. Every project's different. It can be easy, well easy. It can be smooth and it can be fucking chaotic. Especially this dock stuff. Like I'm dying over here with this current project. It's just five years.

Frederike (07:47)
What's happening? I mean,

so am I, but what's happening?

Marcus Mizelle (07:50)
Well, it's I love to share about my stuff. I'll be I'll be brief. It's called Hollywood P.I. and it's about these two P.I.s that are unlikely duo 168 and ones. Are you 68? You're 65. He's old. And his roommate slash sidekick is 29 and his best friend and his roommate. And they are so opposite. But they're hilarious together and they're trying to solve a very serious

murder case, which is the, ⁓ assumed murder of Paul, the older PI's mentor from back in the nineties, who was a guy named Fred Otash, who was the guy that we should all know about, but probably don't, which is the guy that they based all of Chinatown off of and LA confidential. And he wiretapped Marilyn Monroe's house. And the night before him and Paul were going to go on the Joan river show back in 1992, Paul heard three gunshots from across the courtyard.

Yes, this is a documentary. This is not fiction. And ⁓ and then so Paul was terrified and kept his mouth shut until he met me five years ago. And then we started digging it up and trying to figure out not only who killed Fred, but, know, who killed Marilyn. But it's but it's it's true crime, but it's really it's more funny than anything. It's funny and profound as far as just the desire for legacy and like, you know, what sense of purpose and all that.

Frederike (09:01)
It's true crime.

Marcus Mizelle (09:13)
Anyways, it's cool. It's good, yeah, it's fun, it's funny, it's great. ⁓ And I've had an interested ⁓ production studio that wants to help, excuse me, that wants to help beef it up a little bit. needs, because it's good, but it needs to be really good. And we have a chance for it to be really good. And I've been dealing with contracts before we can kind of move forward with the edit, the edit beyond my director's cut. And in the meanwhile, we got into Slamdance and some other festivals and I'm like, okay, cool.

Frederike (09:14)
Great, at least it's funny.

Marcus Mizelle (09:42)
Great, and then I'm like, ah, can't, how far can I really go with a slam dance? And I love slam dance, but like as far as once I started talking to sales agents and publicists and stuff, it's like we're limited, you know? And I'm like, man, let's pull it and then continue to work on it and hope for better because I don't want just good or really good, I need great. So yeah, I'm over here just like, what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing anymore. You know, just trying to maximize it.

Frederike (10:07)
⁓ I'm sorry, I thought

slam dance was really good.

Marcus Mizelle (10:10)
It is really good, think. It is really good. it would be perfect for... It's weird. It's weird. But this film itself... I have a filmmaker that I actually interviewed on this podcast that loves the movie and she wants to help... She has come on to help re-edit it. They've made huge, great documentaries. They won Sundance a few years ago. There's a chance to go bigger with this one. So just didn't want to be like, what could have been?

Frederike (10:13)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (10:38)
Like, no, let's actually find out what could be, you know? So, that's what I'm doing. This is good.

Frederike (10:41)
Bigger Sundance.

bigger is Sundance, like Sundance is the only one in the states that's bigger.

Marcus Mizelle (10:47)
I I think Sundance and

Berlin Sundance, know, I mean, not for this film, maybe for Berlin, but like either way, there's bigger festivals that would help with a possible distribution deal.

I gotta keep working on it. I wanna be done with it, but that's not the priority. So that's what I'm going through. is, doc is hard. It's great because you can start immediately.

Frederike (11:03)
Duck is hard.

Marcus Mizelle (11:08)
But then the price to pay is stuff like this, have you been working on this documentary that you're doing?

Frederike (11:14)
To be honest, only three years. It was much quicker than the film. ⁓ Just that's because it was in hospital and the kids change, know, they're there for years. So I couldn't, every application to make, do new kids. And also because this is a, we're making it for TV. I mean, it's not a TV doc. I mean, it is, but it's not really a TV doc. It's an artistic documentary, that's important to say.

Marcus Mizelle (11:28)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Frederike (11:43)
But because it's going to be broadcasted, it went quicker.

An auteur's documentary, I suppose.

Marcus Mizelle (11:48)
Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, nice.

Cool. How long is it?

Frederike (11:53)
Yeah, three episodes of 40 minutes.

Marcus Mizelle (11:57)
sweet.

me about like the first time.

said to yourself, I'm a filmmaker. I wanna be a filmmaker. when did you realize you were one?

Frederike (12:04)
took a long time before I dared calling myself one, I think. ⁓ Originally I wanted to be an actor, as you read on Wikipedia. Well, there's a difference between wanting to be an actor and starting your career as an actor. I studied acting. I didn't really do it much professionally. I think I was really quick to switch. So I wouldn't say I started any career really.

Marcus Mizelle (12:08)
Mm.

Mm-hmm, which is completely accurate.

partially.

Mmm.

Frederike (12:32)
went to study acting and then I switched because I think I quickly realized that I wanted to create and as an actor it's just difficult because you're waiting around for people to... Yeah, and I had writing and I wanted to make stuff and I studied in the US and what that really ⁓ taught me. I studied acting in the US, not filmmaking. I went to...

Marcus Mizelle (12:55)
Okay, in

New York.

Frederike (12:56)
France.

I went to France for that, in New York, yeah. And that was in the early 2000s and I mean, you probably remember that, but it was this kind of beginning of ⁓ mumblecore and sort of proshumor cameras and people just starting to, you know, make films. We don't have to wait for anyone. Let's just do it ourselves, that kind of stuff.

Marcus Mizelle (13:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, it was like the Doggo 95, then it was the Momocore, know, Sean Baker and them and Shi Ching doing Takeout. I think that comes to mind, right, 03, 2003, where like, get a camera, grab a camera, go.

Frederike (13:32)
Yeah, I mean, I didn't do it at the time. was just observing. I was 17 then when I arrived, but it's the energy that was there then that I took with me to France when I studied film making, because I got kicked out of the US then. wanted... Nothing! I wasn't allowed to be there. I graduated and then they kicked me out. And then I was like, yeah, that sucked. Like, I didn't know.

Marcus Mizelle (13:41)
Sure.

what did you do?

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they were like you gotta go

Sorry. Sorry.

We were so oblivious.

Frederike (14:00)
I didn't know, I didn't...

Yeah, yeah. And I was a bit too young to get married and all that, so I left. Yeah. Well, that was what we did then.

Marcus Mizelle (14:07)
⁓ gosh.

Were you with somebody?

Was that when you had a relationship going and but you were too young and you had to call it?

Frederike (14:15)
Yeah, but like I

was 20 years old, like, but that was what us foreign students, you know, considered. We were like, okay, what are we going to do? ⁓ So I left. But that vibe, I went to Paris. Yeah. I wanted to go to London, but London was too expensive.

Marcus Mizelle (14:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, and we went to Paris, which is...

London, I love all these places, New York, London, Paris. and what year was that when you moved to Paris?

Frederike (14:40)
Obama got elected in my first year in Paris. So that... When was Obama elected? Sorry, you should probably know that. Oh wait, yes, there you go. I went in 2007 and...

Marcus Mizelle (14:43)
wait.

wait, Obama 08.

So

I was, okay. I was up in New York working on independent movies as a group for about right when you left, I guess. So you left, I came to New York from North Carolina and you went to Paris. But man, I just think about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ But anyways, Paris. So how was Paris in 2008? ⁓

Frederike (15:06)
You ride from North Carolina to...

You were working as a grip, so I was dating a guy in New York at the time who was also a grip. And who actually gave me sort of this idea to study film. And yeah, he gave me like the first, I remember that really well. He gave me the first, ⁓ the first, the Robert McKee book. And he was like, take this and yeah, you know, at the time it was a big deal. He was like, read this, you're gonna be a filmmaker. I was like, okay.

Marcus Mizelle (15:21)
Okay, what's his name?

⁓ names.

story.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, anything, yeah, those books too, it was so valuable. And now it's just you too, you can get all the information quickly and it's kind of a whole all over the place thing. But back then it was so funneled down into like story by Robert McKee and John Truby and out of the story and I've saved the cat by Blake Snyder and all those structural Hollywood formula things, which I mean, I'm been, yeah, you see behind me, got a couple of them. Well, you know, and then I realized, wait a minute, I should stop being.

Frederike (15:42)
It was good, it was a good gift.

Save the cat.

You've read them all. ⁓ You see behind me?

Marcus Mizelle (16:10)
So structured. you have a book collection as well. Well, random question. I like this conversation because we're just like super, super loose. What's your what's one of your favorite film books?

Frederike (16:13)
Yeah, of course.

Marcus Mizelle (16:21)
I didn't notice I didn't ask for the favorite because that would just be too much.

Frederike (16:25)
I think my favorite, one of my favorites is ⁓ directing actors.

Marcus Mizelle (16:33)
Okay, ⁓ I got it right there, behind my Robert Busson book.

Frederike (16:35)
Shit, who is it by again?

Who is it?

Marcus Mizelle (16:38)
We got it right. Wait, is it this book here? Hold on. Let's do it.

Frederike (16:42)
Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (16:44)
⁓ yeah, yeah. That one?

Frederike (16:46)
Which one? Yes, that one. I love it. I love it. Yes.

Marcus Mizelle (16:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I need to,

need to reread that actually, because I need to reread that because we're, going to do a little micro budget feature film here this year. And we're just like, fuck it. Let's go make some. So I need to brush back up. Nice. Yeah.

Frederike (16:56)
I love it.

Read it, it's great. Because I think a

lot of directors often forget, I mean, I don't know, I don't want to talk for everyone, but ⁓ I'll speak for myself. I really love actors. And it's when you read that book, it's like, ⁓ right. It reminds you to like really embrace the process of working with an actor and what you can.

Marcus Mizelle (17:14)
Mm-hmm.

Frederike (17:26)
get out of that and what you can give them as well. It's such a beautiful thing. And it's... Yeah, it's good to get reminded of that. I try to read it every time before I start shooting.

Marcus Mizelle (17:30)
Mm-hmm. And just being able to speak the language, same language.

All my friends are actors, not by choice. It just happens that way. I don't know why. It seems like it. And they're all, all, names start with J. I don't know what's going on. I don't know. There's like literally half my, anyways, not about me. ⁓ Okay, so I want to answer my own question. What's my favorite film book? One of my favorites. Owned directing by David Mamet is a good one.

Frederike (17:43)
Really? Oof, that's tough.

Hahaha.

Oh yeah, fair enough that's a good one too.

Marcus Mizelle (18:04)
It's just like, just the value of

just like ⁓ boiling down like the, like what is the common denominator here for this scene? What are you after? What is it? You know, cut the fat. ⁓ Okay, so anyways, back to you. You, so Paris, tell me about Paris. And then I guess like that chapter for you.

Frederike (18:13)
Yeah.

⁓ So Paris was film school ⁓ and what I was saying is I think I took that vibe from New York into Paris because in Paris at the time I felt like, you know in school we had this running joke that the French were so holding on to their...

We are the cultural capital of the world, kind of because we had the Nouvelle Vague, you know, but it was so old at the time and nobody cared anymore about the Nouvelle Vague, which is not entirely true, of course, but everyone was very excited about the American indie scene kind of developing, which wasn't happening yet in France, or I don't know if it ever did. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (18:49)
Yeah, sure. Very proud. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Frederike (19:11)
So it was really nice to take that energy there and to just start shooting. And I was working with an American director there as well. And when I was in Paris, I would leave over the summer and go to New York to work on an indie film. It was an interesting time where I sort of mixed these two cultures because I couldn't let go of New York. And I wasn't ready to really be in Europe again. But at the same time, I really like Europe.

Marcus Mizelle (19:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's very likeable. Yeah. Europe's not so shabby.

Frederike (19:39)
It was interesting that way.

Yes,

New York is very likeable as well, but just politically it's getting a bit complicated. But anyway, we weren't gonna go into that.

Marcus Mizelle (19:46)
I agree.

I feel like New York is the most

European American city, right? As far as culture sensibilities. It's still America.

Frederike (19:54)
That's what they say, but it's still... Let's say there

are a lot of Europeans in New York, but it's still very, very American.

Marcus Mizelle (20:01)
I'm just comparing New

York to the rest of the American cities too. Do you know what I mean? Where it's like, unlike, mean, LA, I love LA. It's not perfect, but I'm happy here. But New York is like, I don't know. The most European American city. That doesn't make it a European, but anyways, you know. It's walk, you walk, it's got cuteness, it's got identity, it knows what it is. You know, it's got its own shit. But also I think as far as filmmakers are concerned.

Frederike (20:16)
It's because it's cute. New York has cuteness to it. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (20:28)
⁓ It's more of a filmmaker town city than LA is I think LA is more show business, right? It's more business business business Yeah

Frederike (20:34)
I agree, yes, it's more

passion, more love in New York rather than business.

Marcus Mizelle (20:38)
It's more craft driven, more reverence

for film. Here it's like, yeah, but like, you know, can you sell it? Let's put a shark and a tornado together. know? Anyways, moving right along here. Okay, so Paris and then, ⁓

Frederike (20:42)
Yeah, absolutely.

That.

And so

then in Paris I graduated and I wanted to stay but like I said, France, French film is really closed. It's really difficult to... It's really its own kind of world. And then I realized actually that in Europe, the easiest to get funding is to just go to your own fucking country. And so I did.

Marcus Mizelle (21:21)
yeah,

film financing there through your country. And I guess, know, it's more, everything's more private financing here, but I guess you still have your own issues, right? Trying to be accepted or selected, right? Cause you're not the only one trying to get financing or is it pretty obtainable? Like what does that look, what does that actually look like? As an American, I've always been curious.

Frederike (21:25)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

⁓

It's competitive because indeed there's only like a few sources and everyone needs to go to that source. But I think it's also obtainable.

Marcus Mizelle (21:51)
Sure.

Frederike (21:57)
think it's more straightforward. I mean, I don't know, sometimes I feel like it's better because it's more obtainable and more accessible. ⁓ On the other hand, it is a family that you have to kind of like work your way into. And if you don't find your way in, there's no other family, which I think in the US, at least there are all kinds of ways. And here there's really just kind of one way.

Marcus Mizelle (22:05)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Random things, yeah.

Frederike (22:23)
Because making films by yourself or super indie or like, you know, we don't have a distributor and like our market, our audience market is so small that if you don't have a distributor or if you have like, like if you make a really niche film in the States and 0.01 % of the population sees it, it's still a lot of people. If you make a niche film in Belgium and 0.01 % of the population sees it, it's like a hundred people.

Marcus Mizelle (22:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. ⁓ okay. Just like my movies.

Frederike (22:53)
So you're really dependent on the

system. It's a great system, but you're very dependent on it. Which is basically the Europe versus America thing, but let's not get into politics.

Marcus Mizelle (22:59)
Got you,

It's a

⁓ microcosm of ⁓ larger things. But the notion of the state funded ⁓ film is just such a wonderful thing. I think a lot of European countries seem to give back to their people as opposed to here. We're going to overtax you and then put it all in our pocket and then act like you owes more. It's nice that they put money into...

The arts like that. Yeah, so that's really cool. Okay, so Paris. what was after Paris? so back to Brussels, okay. And then what were you kind of making at this point? Where were you at in your career?

Frederike (23:33)
It is. It really is. I hope that lasts.

Brussels.

I got an internship because I needed to do an internship for school and then I did an internship on the feature film, you know, a PA slash extras coordinator slash whatever they can put me. And then I started working afterwards for that production company. And I think at the time I hadn't yet, I mean,

I knew somewhere in the back of my mind that I wanted to be a director, but I didn't exactly know yet how on earth that would be possible because in Belgium, I guess if you if I would have stayed here like most directors, how it works is like you go to film school, you try and make a really good short film and then maybe it wins something and then you get kind of picked up and there you go.

Whereas obviously I had been abroad for so long, I knew nothing about how things worked here. And I had this American system in my head where you just kind of work yourself in. ⁓ So it took me a few years working in production and assisting and doing all kinds of things. Casting, I did casting, I worked on set, I did all kinds of things.

Marcus Mizelle (24:53)
Yeah.

You're well-rounded. You're

like me, yeah. We're at the same, where it's like, yeah, same. It's nice. And a lot of people aren't like that, I don't feel like, you know, not everybody's path is like that, where it's like all these different dimensions that we... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, no, I mean, I'm talking about everybody. No, I think, yeah, some people, I'm glad that I got on, look, everybody has their own path and their own starting point.

Frederike (25:14)
It's really the American way, I feel.

Sorry, well, you were talking about America.

Marcus Mizelle (25:28)
And I was just first of all trying to get the fuck up out of North Carolina and by any way necessary. And I was lucky because we had Wilmington. You heard of Wilmington, North Carolina? This studio's down there. Dino De Laurentiis created the studio in 82, I think. And then North Carolina had this tax incentive and it was like a hotbed for larger independent films. And so I'm 90 minutes, I'm born 90 minutes from that place. And so when I...

wanted to make movies, my mom was like, why don't you just go to Wilmington? And I'm like, I want to go to NYU, you know, because all the ads in the back of the magazines, you know, thank God I didn't. mean, I would have whatever. Not thank God, but you know, I would have loved to go to MIT. I'm just bitter. No, but I was so lucky to have this this back door, the for sure into the Wilmington thing. But, know, it's not like you have to be, I mean, being a crew person was really the only way out.

Frederike (26:06)
I would have loved to go to NYU.

haha

Marcus Mizelle (26:22)
right off the bat and I'm like, what are those grips doing? They seem cool and like lighting is very interesting to me and like cinematic lighting, how do they do that? So yeah, anyways, that's what got me out. And then it was all about trying to get out of gripping at that point, get in and to get out, know. Five year plan lasted seven and.

Frederike (26:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, I had that with

production. That was really hard to get out of as well because it's so busy. Like producing or like assistant producing, it's like a seven, seven day a week job. It never stops. It never stops. ⁓ What saved me actually, exactly. It doesn't pay that well. It doesn't pay enough to like just not do it for a few months.

Marcus Mizelle (26:52)
Ugh, never. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a little money coming in.

But you get a little comfortable where it's like, what

am I going to do now? I've established myself and then I have to back out. What am I doing? Kind of thing. At least for me, that was how it was for me. But I was always like, make a film, do a job, make a film, do a job. And then I just went to New Orleans, New York, New Orleans, LA. You know.

Frederike (27:18)
But I couldn't

make a film because production is so all-consuming. So I knew that I had to quit in order to make a film. In between films that I worked production on? No, I was at the production company. So full-on, full-time. And I had to quit, but I didn't know how to quit. And interestingly,

Marcus Mizelle (27:22)
Seven days. What about in between films?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah,

Okay, okay. was a full on full time. I got you. Yeah. You had to quit.

Frederike (27:47)
what saved me was that I... it's a bit of a secret but also not I guess. What saved me is that I got a ⁓ job, ⁓ a part on a soap opera. ⁓ So for six months I got to be in some soap opera that I wasn't necessarily like excited about.

Marcus Mizelle (27:52)
Ooh, yeah, tell me.

Okay, all right.

Frederike (28:14)
But it would pay me the same amount of money I would get as a production assistant, but only working 10 days a month.

Marcus Mizelle (28:21)
Mm.

⁓ wow, beautiful. Time is money, money is time.

Frederike (28:25)
It's crazy, you go to set, you say your lines,

you leave, yeah. So there I was, all of sudden I was in a soap opera and...

Marcus Mizelle (28:30)
And it was a new thing too, where could just

pivot into something else that you were, yeah, ⁓ great.

Frederike (28:36)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, it was weird. It was super weird, but it did allow me to make my first short film. Being in a soap opera is weird.

Marcus Mizelle (28:41)
The timing was weird and the transition was probably weird too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, just the bandwidth. mean, the volume 10 pages a

Frederike (28:51)
Yeah,

and it's also it's got nothing to do with cinema and you know you dream of cinema you get into soap opera and you're like whoa this is this is something else.

Marcus Mizelle (29:02)
And

now here we are with the hottest thing in town, our vertical soap operas. Vertical filmmaking. It's like man, reality TV. Very soap opera-y. you know, what is it? Anyway.

Frederike (29:08)
Right.

Is that actually a thing? Vertical filmmaking?

Marcus Mizelle (29:18)
Oh, you don't know. Oh yeah. I mean, here in LA, everybody's clamoring to like get up into vertical filmmaking. Like three years ago, it had popped its head up and these Chinese companies were creating these apps that basically, all the storylines are the same, very soapy, where it's like, I'm in love with my rich hot boss who's also a Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they make them for like $130,000 and they cut.

Frederike (29:19)
I mean... I guess I... don't know...

Marcus Mizelle (29:43)
them into like ⁓ three minute shorts. It's a whole script that's cut into three minute shorts. And when you're watching it on the app, ⁓ like real short, what is it? I forget them. There's a bunch of them. You basically have to pay to to watch more to unlock the next thing, but it took off. And now everybody with all this, you know, all the work going really slow, everybody's not too good to work on vertical filmmaking now.

Frederike (30:01)
⁓ shit.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (30:09)
and all these agencies in Hollywood is kind of like investing in it. So yeah,

Frederike (30:13)
we haven't arrived there yet,

Marcus Mizelle (30:15)
Okay, back to you. I need therapy. need like a specific film therapist, a therapist who understands the business that can just hold my hand.

Frederike (30:15)
Ha

It's a little bit... I mean the conversations in cinema world even here and I can imagine it might even be worse there. ⁓ It's changed for sure in the past few years. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (30:24)
and tell me, man, you're okay.

But maybe there's a niche

that's created that's widening for people that do care about cinema and craft. know, the reason I did this podcast is that's one of the big things, one of the big reasons, you know, like just let's, or seeing vitiates or these cinephile driven cinema lover of spaces, you know, I mean, I think the less you get it, the more desirable it is. Yeah, I think so. Even the theaters, it's like, okay, if we have to truncate back down to...

Frederike (30:57)
It'll always exist.

Marcus Mizelle (31:04)
two-screen theaters or even one-screen theaters, make it more special, less quality, more quality, you know? think that's probably what's gonna happen. I don't need a megaplex in my life.

Frederike (31:12)
Yeah, but then it's, guess,

then it'll become even more difficult to make them, I guess. Then it'll really just be the happy few that get to make them.

Marcus Mizelle (31:20)
For sure, for sure, I know, you know, but,

Frederike (31:23)
I'm so grateful that I've made two.

I hope I'll make more, but we don't know what it's gonna...

Marcus Mizelle (31:30)
It's the gratitude is the gratitude is key though, because yeah, I'm glad that I've been able to do what I'm what I've done. But also I have unfinished business. I'm like, God damn it. I need my I need some things I haven't had yet. ⁓ And and with the business changing and all this,

Frederike (31:31)
Anyway.

Marcus Mizelle (31:46)
it's just like, how do you get people to want to go to the movies and like.

everybody loves it the way we love it, you know. But they used to. I think the 90s, though, everybody was a cinephile, not self-proclaimed, but everybody, you there was a culture. Yeah, and there was a culture and there was curation required. curation comes almost more reverence, you know, to a degree, as opposed to you give everybody everything all at once.

Frederike (31:53)
I know. I know.

I guess there wasn't an alternative.

Marcus Mizelle (32:12)
And nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. Human nature, you don't want what you can have so easily. It's out today and you just heard of it. Okay, I don't really want to see it. You know, I want to look.

Frederike (32:22)
Well, but they're

going for easy when it comes to vertical.

you know, the audio-visual consumption. There's easy consumption, that's fast food consumption. So in that sense, they find film to be too difficult. Because I have to think and yeah, it's like reading a book, which is awesome by the way, but...

Marcus Mizelle (32:32)
sure. Yeah, yeah. And people want it.

Yeah, it's like reading a book.

Yeah.

So you were hesitant to call yourself a director then. You're trying to be careful about not, what was it for you?

Frederike (32:49)
I thought it was very, yeah, because... Yeah, I was nervous about that. It's the same with calling yourself an artist. It's similar. In filmmaking also, it's hard kind of thing. ⁓ But yeah, it took me a long time to be confident about that... that... ⁓ name. And I think it was only until I made a funded film. Because you know when your film gets funded?

Marcus Mizelle (32:51)
Tensions?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Interesting.

Hmm

Frederike (33:16)
There's a group of people that sit around a table and that have read your script and are having a discussion about it and have decided that you as a person are worth giving money to and that's when you're a director.

Marcus Mizelle (33:21)
Mm-hmm.

Man, yeah.

Yeah, I've had a taste of that. It's like, god, yeah, this is what I want, this is great. But yeah, it's like, there's.

Frederike (33:36)
Yeah, I remember that

feeling of getting that first email that says, you know, we've decided to grant you 60,000 euros to make that short film. It's like, oh, that's when it's real. Even if I made four shorts before. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (33:48)
Mm-hmm. When you see the money hit your account. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Is that the short

they got into Tribeca? Or is this Wikipedia just fucking with me again? Okay.

Okay, now BFI London Film Festival as well.

Frederike (34:04)
Yeah, did great, that shorts.

Marcus Mizelle (34:06)
And then, so what happened after that and what you directed in a short documentary? Sig? Is that how you pronounce it?

Frederike (34:10)
Yeah, I did a few shows

apart from that and then I started on my first feature. I did the short documentary kind of in between. It was a film that sort of came to me because I met this... All the documentaries, you know, I wouldn't even call myself a documentary filmmaker even though I've done a few, it's... Somehow the documentaries have always come to me, whereas the films have always, I've definitely...

Marcus Mizelle (34:15)
you

Mm-hmm.

Frederike (34:37)
Gone after them? Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (34:38)
had to chase them, my God, yeah, this is another combo. have a lot, yeah,

yeah, because it's like docs are, ⁓ I feel like for me, fiction has been more of an abusive relationship, like I'm in an abusive relationship. For me, fiction, where it's like, I give so much to you and you don't give back. But documentaries, it's like, ⁓ my God, ⁓ it's just.

much easier but not the work aspect or not the patience aspect required but it's as far as just the reward factor what has come ⁓ once it's done and the audience's response and the authenticity and all the things that I want which is the connection with the audience come

Frederike (35:08)
No. Yeah.

I find it harder, documentary.

Fiction is not abusive to me. I like it a lot more than doc... Actually, no, I cannot say that because I really like doc as well, but I find documentary harder because you're dealing with real people. And so the relationships are so fragile and there is a... For me, it's ironic because...

Marcus Mizelle (35:35)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Frederike (35:46)
A lot of people would say a documentary is more free and I get how it is more free but to me it is less free because I have an enormous responsibility towards the people I'm making a film about. And I'm constantly nervous about breaking trust or whatever. Whereas in fiction, I write a story and we make it.

Marcus Mizelle (35:52)
Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I think for me it's the, oh go ahead, sir.

I think for me it's, and I hear you, I think for me it's like the over concern of like, is this authentic? Is this real? Does this feel real? I'm fucking so terrified of melodrama. Because I made a film that is very melodramatic that I hope no one ever sees it I'm not gonna tell you what it is. But it's fiction, fiction, yeah. But with documentaries it was like, my God, that weight is off as far as these people are real. Like if I can just choose to...

Frederike (36:22)
Fiction you talking about?

Marcus Mizelle (36:32)
not just to stand back at the right times and let things happen, which is same with fiction film. But it was just like, this is already real. Let's just make sure they don't ham it up and just let's be candid and make sure they're themselves here. That for me, that was, but again, we all have our different paths, you know? And it's like that I was coming.

Frederike (36:47)
When is a fiction too

sentimental, too melodramatic then for you? Like what makes it?

Marcus Mizelle (36:51)
Well, in

my experience, I mean, was trying to do ⁓ my first really, I mean, was making comedies for my first three, all my short films and my first few features. so, but you know, it was always another genre, usually romance before the comedy, but either way you always had the comedy, you know, which was like so fun. And it was like, you can get away with a lot in my opinion when you have that layer of comedy, but if you're...

Then I moved and did something serious, tried to make a crime film that was very serious with no comedy. And I realized after the fact that once you have one fucking hole in that curtain and that light shining through that you don't want there, you're fucked, you're screwed. Meaning like the, I just wasn't as versed as I wanted to think I was at the time as far as just this very serious business. And I think it was because of the lack of believability in the performances.

the scenario, the scenario. So that was my experience. And so I was, I felt like I was at the mercy of the, which you are, know, the mercy of performance or lack thereof. And, you know, it's, I take the burden on that because I just, ⁓ it was, I wouldn't undo that because of the shit that I learned on that movie is crazy. Like that was crazy. It was a grad school for me. ⁓ Anyways, but.

I haven't made a fiction feature since and it's time to fucking break that. ⁓ script is everything, but also like I came from, I mean, I worked on comedy shows. There's a show called Eastbound and Down that I was working on. was working with like ⁓ comedy movies, a lot of just comedy was my life, comedy filmmaking. And so I think that for me, I was just, but I love crime, you know, but I just wasn't prepared like I thought I was. And so it kind of fucked me up a little bit.

Frederike (38:21)
Script is everything, it's true.

Marcus Mizelle (38:43)
venmo you some some money for this therapy session

Frederike (38:43)
I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry for the

abusive relationship that you have with fiction. It's true, maybe you should get a therapy session. I'm happy to be your therapist here, but...

Marcus Mizelle (38:50)
Yeah, yeah, I have a

therapist, just like somebody who's just like a film, maybe I could just, maybe we could start a business here.

Talk about your movie. Let's go in your movie. It's time. It's time. Everyone's sorry nowadays. This is based on a book, right?

Frederike (39:04)
Correct.

Marcus Mizelle (39:05)
And how did this come about? What was the development like on this?

Frederike (39:08)
I read the book, ⁓ my aunt actually gave me the book, my grandma said, hey maybe you should turn it into a film. I said, well I don't know, I did a film with kids already and you know, I don't want people to see me only as a kid film director.

I went home with the book, read it, and I was like, ⁓ I have to make this into a film. I wrote to the writer. I was like, hey, can I make this into a film? And he was like, yes. And then COVID happened. And then I took the book into quarantine. Quarantine? Am I saying that?

Marcus Mizelle (39:43)
Ketamine? Quarantine? Ketamine? ⁓ quarantine, quarantine, quarantine. I was like, ketamine? You took a... No worries, I only speak English, barely.

Frederike (39:45)
How do you say it? Lockdown. That's French. Quarantine! Okay, sorry. I mix up the languages sometimes. I'm sorry. ⁓ Quarantine in

French. And I took the book into quarantine. Shit, I forgot again. Quarantine. And quarantine.

Marcus Mizelle (40:01)
You had it, quarantine.

Frederike (40:05)
I had a friend write a treatment and then I wrote the script and then...

and then we got money for it. Actually this film, to be honest, went quite smoothly in that sense.

Marcus Mizelle (40:20)
I mean, it sounds like it went smoothly on the front end and the back end then. well, let's talk about, I guess, going from development to production, into production. Was that smooth?

Frederike (40:29)
It was smooth, apart from a two year wait, because that's then again, like I said, the funding system is limited. there is only kind of one system. there are too many, you're in a queue basically. like,

Marcus Mizelle (40:46)
Right, it's like a small door everybody's trying to get into.

Frederike (40:48)
Exactly. And at some point everyone was like, we really like it. We really like it. But you're number four. then so we had a two year kind of break where we were waiting for money. But they kept saying it's really good. So it's really not a quality thing. So it's also that we didn't have to rewrite or anything. It was just really a wait.

Marcus Mizelle (41:10)
Can I

ask you this? As far as getting the book rights and then also you adapted the screenplay, guess, right? Adapted the book into a screenplay. So what was, I mean, was that, what is that like? I've never done that.

Frederike (41:17)
Yeah.

I love it because this book, think it can be very difficult for many books, but this book is 120 pages and it has a really clear three-act structure. It's almost written as a film, like no kidding. And the only thing that I had to do was translate this main character's thoughts and feelings into scenes.

Marcus Mizelle (41:29)
Yeah.

Beautiful. Yeah.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm,

Frederike (41:49)
to avoid that it would just be one big voiceover, right? And so this

Marcus Mizelle (41:49)
sure. Amazing, yeah.

Frederike (41:53)
is great because I didn't have to worry about the structure because that's so difficult. I could just sit, close my eyes and imagine and then type it out. And it sounds maybe a bit too easy. It was hard.

Marcus Mizelle (41:57)
Yeah.

That's amazing, nice.

You're you're you're

you're a down player, obviously. Yeah, I'm not a director. Yeah.

Frederike (42:09)
But it was

really, really nice to adapt because I didn't have to struggle through structure and through how am I... It was just very clear from the beginning how I wanted this film to be and the idea that I could make a film that happened in one day.

Marcus Mizelle (42:21)
Ugh. Ugh.

Frederike (42:34)
and with the imagine the inside of a mind becoming visible. ⁓

Marcus Mizelle (42:41)
Yep.

Which it lends itself to a film if done well, right? To a degree. It can. And yours, yeah.

Frederike (42:47)
If done well. I have to say, I

was very nervous about that because I was very aware from the start that it wasn't a... My previous film is very classic in like, girl wants something, fights for it and then has all the sort of like your screenplay book classic. This one had also this relatively classic...

Marcus Mizelle (43:07)
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frederike (43:13)
structure, but also to have a whole film playing one day and to have imagined ⁓ thoughts and feelings become scenes was a risk. And I was nervous about that, I have to say. Like it could be completely cheesy or terrible.

Marcus Mizelle (43:31)
Well, it reminded me of a film that I interviewed the director for called.

The Thing with Feathers, which actually premiered at Berlin last year. Dylan Southern's film with Benedict Cumberbatch. In terms of just like the imagined, is this real, is this not real aspect of it. And seeing this through a character's viewpoint, ⁓ which is like, it is all about point of view, right? I mean, as far as like when you're telling it through a character's point of view, it's like, that is very cinema ready if done correctly, or it can be very.

very in tune with what you can do with this form. But no, think, also, ⁓ the 24 hour thing, it takes place in one day.

Frederike (44:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, not even 24 hours. I think the whole film is maybe five, six hours, not even.

Marcus Mizelle (44:17)
I love those movies.

Frederike (44:20)
Yeah, I like that too. Maybe I like it because it has a link to the theater. Obviously I originally come from the theater. I mean, in a way that was just what we were educated in. ⁓ Or like my education started in the theater, let's put it that way. ⁓ And so this, not only the time, but also the...

Marcus Mizelle (44:27)
Mmm. Mmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Frederike (44:49)
Because in this film, it's limited time, also limited, it's all inside their house. So it's also kind of a weak low, and I quite like how.

Marcus Mizelle (44:55)
Mostly, right? You

still go out a little bit, don't you? But it's mostly in the house.

Frederike (45:02)
Just,

just in her mind.

Marcus Mizelle (45:04)
Just the fact too that like you have to be strong elsewhere with this material if you can't lean on, ooh, we're gonna go to a new location now. We're gonna shift this, you know, we're gonna, like,

It's a play. ⁓ Good plays are great. mean, great plays are great because they are, ⁓ the story is told through characters and through strong dialogue or character action, right? As opposed to just like leaning on some kind of surface thing, but some sort of back burner ⁓ element, like a setting change or something like that. That's my take. Yeah.

Frederike (45:17)
Yeah.

Exactly.

No fancy locations, no fancy... Just none of that. And sometimes I was like, ⁓ shit, you know, do we need it? Like, aren't we going to miss it? Like a landscape or an architectural, like something, you know, image. And it was really interesting with the DP as well to think like, how, in what senses is interesting, but he was from the start very interested in...

Marcus Mizelle (45:37)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Mm.

Frederike (46:01)
creating that world like that. Not indeed what you said, not leaning on kind of the obvious imagery, but using emotion. Yes, I love 12 Angry Men because it's just about people. It's just, that's a good book as well, by the way. Yeah, I like that too. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (46:09)
like 12 Angry Men, right?

that's one of my favorite directors, Sidney Lumet. Yeah, and it's like confined.

Whoa, we mean Sidney Lumet making movies? That's a good one. I love the whole

him getting prepared for the rehearsal with the bagels and all that. But 12 Angry Men ⁓ with just the way that he the story visually, but then it was like, you don't need anything else. You just need these characters with these high conundrums, these high conflict. Yeah.

Frederike (46:27)
Yeah.

It's just people and energy and it's great. And tension between

people. And that's really for me what I like about cinemize is that it explores human behavior and the way people interact with each other. And to have that condensed in that way, it's great. It really allows to focus on the actors.

Marcus Mizelle (46:56)
Hmm.

Frederike (47:03)
limitations are quite fun in that way because I guess you're much more creative in a way because of the limitations. It's interesting actually, I did a script writing workshop last year and it was all about limitations. It was even called Lim. ⁓ And they really pushed you to find limitations within the story, limitations within the... so you were forced to think within those limitations, which is a really interesting thing.

Marcus Mizelle (47:12)
Yeah.

Okay, nice. Ooh.

It's like the good stuff is always in the challenge, I feel like, you know, the what do you have?

Frederike (47:31)
Cheese is good.

Yeah, which

doesn't mean it has to be abusive, a lot of people have abusive relationships with cinema and sometimes people tend to think that it's supposed to be that way. I feel like when I was growing up, you have to suffer to make a good film and stuff like that and it bugs me

Marcus Mizelle (47:39)
that's a different thing. ⁓

No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

production of your film. How long did you shoot this movie for?

Frederike (47:56)
26 days.

Marcus Mizelle (47:58)
Nice. And it was, the, I feel like you can, that's solid. That's nice. feel like especially considering the situation, right? You're in one central location, I would think. It was, it's not bad. I mean, you could use more time, I'm sure, but yeah, it seems pretty like a healthy amount of space to play in. Okay. Okay. Just okay. You need more next time. Right?

Frederike (47:59)
Is that nice?

It's not bad.

Yeah.

It was okay. It was okay.

You know, maybe just a few days more would be great.

Marcus Mizelle (48:25)
just a few days more. give me a challenge and give me a highlight, I guess, if you don't mind, of production. Like what was kind of the hardest moment, if there's anything that comes to mind and then a highlight.

Frederike (48:35)
hardest moment and the best moment?

Marcus Mizelle (48:37)
Yeah.

Frederike (48:38)
was the hardest.

Filmmaking is never easy. The whole thing is hard. But I think this shoot was so gentle and so... ⁓ You know, my previous shoot had been a little bit rougher on the relationships. Like I had a complicated relationship with my first AD and it was more...

Marcus Mizelle (48:49)
Mmm.

Frederike (49:05)
it was the first thing and you don't feel trusted as much. And this film, you know, from the production to the DPAD team, there was just so much care that even the hard things were...

Marcus Mizelle (49:19)
Mm-hmm.

Frederike (49:25)
okay because it was just a job, you know? We were all just working on something with a lot of love. I mean, now I'm the cheeseball, but I really mean that. Like, everyone was happy to be there and I don't know, it was really a beautiful shoot, to be honest. And it was really nice that we were for a very long time in and around this house, so the whole crew was together in this one space.

Marcus Mizelle (49:28)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nice.

Mm-hmm.

Frederike (49:53)
And

it was a Belgian Dutch German crew, so that was also fun to have all these different kinds of people. And it was just a great summer, to be honest.

Marcus Mizelle (50:02)
And it's also who you're with, right? A lot of times, right? The people that you're sharing your space with that can make it great. Yeah. Yeah.

Frederike (50:07)
Completely. Everybody cared. Everybody

was just normal to each other.

Marcus Mizelle (50:12)
Ugh, normal! That's not always nice, isn't it? As opposed to, what the fuck is that guy's problem?

Frederike (50:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, there were no... And it's just so possible and it's beautiful if that works.

Marcus Mizelle (50:19)
No, I feel you.

Yeah, yeah, That's

so great to hear, it's wonderful. It's a great experience for you. And it's like, in Berlin, man, come on, this is such a dope festival. And Berlin's special to me because

Frederike (50:30)
Yeah, it was lovely.

Marcus Mizelle (50:37)
need more time, part two. experiencing the Berlin Film Festival and then also going to these like brunches with these European filmmakers. They were so fucking excited about movie making, you know? And I'm like, where do I get this back in LA? So that's the reason why I started this podcast.

Frederike (50:54)
In New York a lot.

spent a week in New York meeting all kinds of people a few years ago or last year actually. I was surprised how because our funding system also sometimes makes people a bit lazy maybe because I think the industry is much tougher in the States and you better be really really good or you're not gonna

you know, make it. And maybe because we have that, don't know, it's maybe a bit difficult to say, but like I found people in New York so passionate about cinema and mostly about European cinema. Like they were more aware of all the European classics than I was. I was like, whoa, damn.

Marcus Mizelle (51:22)
Sure, okay.

Mm, they are.

There's

such reverence too for outsiders looking in, right? I mean, the French New Wave was more loved and respected by Americans than French at the time, right? I believe, yeah. But even the way that the French would hire all those American directors, know.

Frederike (51:47)
Yeah, maybe, yeah. Maybe they just all went to NYU.

Marcus Mizelle (51:54)
Jules Dassen, you know, think about that guy. Rafifi. ⁓

Frederike (51:58)
Maybe that's

a bit the other way around, I wonder. I know Americans are very excited now to do European co-production.

Marcus Mizelle (52:01)
Maybe so, I don't know.

I am. I love everything about Europe. Well, not everything. I'm screwed back up. Beep beep. Hold on. But no, as far as I'm very romantic about most things Europe, especially film in the way that they fucking honored the craft. And as far as New York, I feel like New York filmmakers, I mean, look at the Sundance lineup. A lot of them are from the US competition or whatever. of them are from Brooklyn. A lot of filmmakers that I interview are from Brooklyn or New York or...

You know, not all, but a lot of them are, and this podcast is definitely craft oriented. So yeah, I mean, there's a reverence for it. Okay, so I

Frederike (52:31)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (52:40)
Berlin, Berlin, Berlin, what are you, how are you preparing for it or what do you have to do? I mean, obviously the film is done, you're taking a beat here, but like,

How do you've got your publicist? You've got ⁓ what sales look like. Where do you, do you already have your sales agent or did you already make a deal? Who are they? Okay, nice. Level K, okay. And were they there from the beginning?

Frederike (52:53)
Yeah, Level K, yeah. Level K. They did my first,

yeah, we did, they worked on my first film as well.

Marcus Mizelle (53:04)
Nice and they're good to work with, obviously.

Frederike (53:06)
Yeah, I think the film did great, the previous ones all. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah, so they, they're there, yeah. But I think...

Marcus Mizelle (53:10)
amazing.

Nice. You are smoothly

rolling along here with this project, I feel like. It's good. I know, but it's so refreshing and nice, you know? It's great. It's great.

Frederike (53:19)
Kinda sounds that way now. We'll see after Berlin. Maybe nothing happens. We don't know.

I'm happy.

mean, I'm very happy about it. ⁓ So let's see what it does. You never know. Maybe we go to Berlin and then nobody gives a fuck about it. I don't know. Maybe the press will see it next week and everybody will be like, this sucks. So we'll see. You don't know.

Marcus Mizelle (53:33)
whatever.

No, please. No, no, no.

let me ask you this before I forget. Are there any past films that inspired? I mean, obviously the book was the book, but did you have any films in mind when you were making this or films that were similar or that inspired you when you were making this film?

Frederike (53:55)
no films are really similar, I have to say, or none that I know of. I was inspired by Boy, Tai Kee Waititi's Boy.

Marcus Mizelle (54:02)
Mm-hmm.

I never saw it. I never saw it.

Frederike (54:10)
It's great.

I love it. ⁓ It's very different. It's very different, but it's a great film and it really inspired me. Strangely, I was inspired by Custerica's Arizona Dreams. Completely different kind of film. I don't know why it inspired this one. Maybe just the use of imaginary elements. Emir Custerica's Arizona Dreams.

Marcus Mizelle (54:13)
Great rec.

What was that again?

Arizona dreams,

Frederike (54:37)
I mean, super, super different kind of film, but I think there is a magical realism in it that I like a lot.

Céline Siamma's films that are also very different but they're fascinating to me just because they're also kind of like portraits of young girls which doesn't... It's not that common to have them be...

Marcus Mizelle (54:55)
Yeah.

Right? If you think about it.

Frederike (55:01)
to have them be complex. It's really difficult for girl characters. And her, exactly. Céline Sciamma and Andrea Arnold, I think, are the most sort of interesting in that sense. I can imagine. I can imagine. Yeah.

Marcus Mizelle (55:05)
Young girl protagonist. Yeah, Andrea Arnold, I think it comes to mind, like maybe, but that's...

She comes up so much on this podcast too. It's crazy. I just saw

a bird on the plane back from France. yeah, it was amazing. It's amazing.

Frederike (55:21)
I love bird. Did you like bird? Bird

is amazing. Also that, in bird also the use of kind of magical realism elements. I love that. It's something I definitely always want to find how something can be so realistic and yet how the inside of the mind can become realistic is realistic because it is.

Marcus Mizelle (55:31)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

my God.

Okay, last question. Oh yeah, for sure. No, for sure.

Frederike (55:45)
Eternal Sunshine, guess, also very interesting in that sense.

Marcus Mizelle (55:51)
last question. It's always the same question. ⁓ What would you tell your younger filmmaking self if you could go back in time and tell her something that you know now?

Frederike (56:00)
Like how young are we talking?

Marcus Mizelle (56:03)
Yeah, whatever you want. I don't know, you know, four years old. I'm just kidding. Whenever you were know, whenever you started making movies, whenever, let's just say go back to New York or go back to right before you left for New York. When you were like, I'm gonna pursue filmmaking.

Frederike (56:17)
I would say...

Okay, I have two. One is something that I had someone tell me this throughout my...

life, ⁓ older life, and it's just so good. It is like my mentor, a good friend of mine, would keep on telling me this. He was older than me and when I was starting out, he would always say, feel the fear, do it anyway, because filmmaking is so scary, because it's so lonely, and when you have an idea,

You can go out and tell people about that idea and people are gonna go, great idea. But then nobody does anything and you have to basically just drag this mountain for years, keeping on believing in it and convincing people that it's gonna be great. And it's so scary because it's really vulnerable because you don't fucking know it's gonna be great. You hope it will be. You'll do the best you can, but you cannot really know. Still, you have to convince these people because they're gonna give you a lot of money.

So I find it often really scary, like raging fear. ⁓ And so this always helps, like feel the fear, do it anyway. And then the second one would be trust the process.